Home > linux > Fedora 11 Review (KDE) – Desktop Emphasis

Fedora 11 Review (KDE) – Desktop Emphasis

Introduction

It is no secret that openSUSE has always been my Linux of choice. I have always found it to support my hardware, do what I expect it to, and otherwise work correctly, practically out of the box. And as always, I excitedly install the latest, newest distros, hoping that they will give it a run for its money.

I am also a KDE fan. KDE4 is a lot more usable than GNOME, and the looks don’t hurt either.

With that in mind, and the latest Fedora release (11, Leonidas), I downloaded myself the Fedora 11 KDE Live CD and took it out for a spin.

Hardware

As always, I test my distro on two platforms: a VMware 6.5 Virtual Machine with 1 processor and 512MB RAM, running on a Windows Vista host; as well as a native installation on the hard disk partitions of my Acer Ferrari 5000 (2.0GHz AMD Turion 64 X2, 2GB RAM, ATI X1600 Mobility Radeon).

First Impressions

On both the real hardware and VMware, I had less than favourable first impressions while booting off the Live CD.

For one, the default theme is passable at best. I like the wallpaper, but it is just so incongruous with the relatively modern and plastique KDE 4 look. It might look good with GNOME, but not with KDE 4. And why are the scrollbars of the Kicker Menu pink?

Fedora 11 KDE-2009-06-10-17-28-32

Secondly, Fedora 11 seems to have some major sound issues, because on both the hardware and the VMware, my speakers began to beep uncontrollably for about 2 minutes at login to the desktop before stopping. Furthermore, any sound files I tried to run restarted the same nightmare.

Thirdly, in an age of brilliant Linux installers, Fedora still forces you to use a fullscreen, archaic design installer. It gets the job done, no doubt, but these are first impressions, after all.

Deeper In

The install was relatively painless. But I noticed something bad: the shutdown hangs on my VMware install. This is not just bad, this is very bad. I have to do a hard shut down every time I shut down my machine. And this is not an issue with just the KDE 4 version, it actually occurs with the GNOME version too (yes, I downloaded the GNOME Live CD just to check this out).

And the sound problem still persisted. In the end, I was forced to keep a pair of earplugs besides me, for use every time I rebooted.

My ATI X1600 was supported out of the box, but desktop effects faltered. This is not so much a surprise, as many distros fail to do that, but I was expecting better out of this Fedora release.

What is worse, though, is that on changing the incorrectly discovered resolution to 1680×1050 (my native resolution), all the windows elements retained their earlier appearance. In a nutshell, everything looked horribly mis-sized.

Fedora 11 KDE-2009-06-10-18-04-34

I have plenty of grudges about the software selection too. KOffice? In favour of the well respected, and perfectly functional openoffice.org? Okay, I am using a KDE 4 distro, but so what? openSUSE never asked me to use KOffice. GIMP is missing, as are Mplayer, or even Totem. There isn’t even Firefox. Sticking to the default KDE 4 apps is one thing, but this is taking it too far.

In line with Fedora’s policy, I cannot play most media files without downloading extra codecs. But that is where I found out that PackageKit refuses to work for me. My internet is behind a network prock-sy, but despite setting up the internet prock-sy in the system, PackageKit refuses to get my files for me. No luck from the command line either. This is interesting, given that the internet browsing works fine otherwise.

Stability

It turns out that the shutdown issue on my VMware was not the only stability issue. On opening many windows rapidly on even my real hardware (which is fairly fast), I can easily hang the session. I have to kill the Xserver, or in some cases, even do a hard reboot.

Conclusion

To be honest, I was disappointed. I was expecting much more. This was a poor show from a major distro. Given the slipped deadlines, I was hoping for something worthy. In a phrase, I didn’t like Fedora 11 at all.

I guess I will just stick to my Ubuntu 9.04 and openSUSE 11.1.

Rating: 4/10

Update: Many readers are pointing out that Fedora 11 has worked well for them. I have not stated that Fedora is outright bad. It is just that Fedora did not work out well for me on two environments. And secondly, many of the readers are repeatedly pointing me to the repos for software gripes. As said earlier (now highlighted), my package manager is not working.

My original statements remain valid.

Advertisements
Categories: linux Tags: , ,
  1. 10 June 2009 at 7:56 PM

    “In a phrase, I didn’t like Fedora 11 at all.” I feel the same.

    As always Fedora 11 is nothing new. It’s the same bleeding edge but unusable distribution, suitable for those who like to work at the system, not on it.

  2. nedux
    10 June 2009 at 8:06 PM

    I’m posting here because your blog is listed on distrowatch, so i assume it established plase for linux discussions.
    I was disappointed to read such a biased (opinionated) review.
    For example you consider drawback the fact that there is no Gimp included, and there is no OOo. But i do think it is a better choice then otherwise. For someone who doesn’t require full blown office suit Koffice is more the perfect substitute.
    What you should have mentioned is that Fedora not in their style of latest and greatest included Koffice 1.3 instead of v2, which would be great step forward.
    Same goes for gimp. Why would anyone would want have gimp on there machine unless you specifically require it. And if you do – well it is just “yum install” away from you.
    About maeia, i agree – it is not easy to get media on fedora, well, proprietary media that is.
    From one side i would (so does every oss user i assume) love to see OGG becoming a standard, but it is up to web content providers and hardware providers i guess. They have to start providing support for ogg play back and they have to put on there website sound files compressed in ogg etc.
    And at last – stability. You did not seriously expect fedora to be stable didn’t you? 😉
    It is a nice distro if you like to scruw things up and gladly there plenty of us out there, if not who else would test every broken package so you ones who seek “the most stable distro” would have your peace at night.

  3. Gecko
    10 June 2009 at 8:57 PM

    @nedux

    While this review MAY be (can’t say that I agree) might be bias, your “proof” of bias seems a bit off. Fedora is trying to compete with openSUSE and Ubuntu on the desktop. As such IT SHOULD strive for stability and sane package defaults. Most desktop users want to have OpenOffice instead of KOffice. It should also strive to be stable. If a user wanted unstable, they would run the beta version of Fedora. Then one might not, as you say, “…expect fedora to be stable…” However, this is a final release, so YES, it should be stable, regardless of the bleeding edge nature of Fedora.

  4. 10 June 2009 at 9:49 PM

    @ nedux: As Gecko points out, Fedora is vying for desktop space. It needs to offer what desktop users want: lots of software choice, and stability. Besides, “yum install” doesn’t work for me (neither does PackageKit) so a trip to the repos is out. As an update, I tried Fedora on more hardware. There appear to be more issues – separate, but present. Let’s not go into them, shall we?

    @ Gecko: You are right. Fedora should be stable. After all, they repeatedly delayed the release. What else was it for?

  5. TiPaul
    10 June 2009 at 10:13 PM

    I’ve installed Fedora11 at work and at home and both gave me trouble at installing (partitionning with multiple logical partitions).

    The shutdown/reset freeze issue showed up on both machine even only running the official live-cd (gnome).

    Multimedia (codecs, dvd playback) was a bit of pain to get it running and also the nvidia driver install.

    I finally installed Linux Mint 7 over both installations (Job+home).

    Fedora11 and Linux Mint 7 are night and day by comparaison.

  6. 10 June 2009 at 10:17 PM

    @ TiPaul: Oh, you took the words out of my mouth… Mint 7 is a dream! It is my most satisfactory virtual machine…

  7. 10 June 2009 at 10:32 PM

    I love Fedora, but it rarely loves me back. I build my own machines and it’s the only distro that consistently recognizes newer hardware, my worst experiences being with Ubuntu. Installed Fedora 11 (KDE) last night, but from the DVD where OpenOffice, Gimp, and everything else is loaded by default. However, there’s always something and for me it was no internet connection. A quick visit to DHCP cured it, but c’mon! The other was that you had to run Ext3 on the extended partition even though it ran Ext4 everywhere else — wha??!

    Oh well. It ain’t called bleeding edge for nothing.

  8. TiPaul
    10 June 2009 at 10:35 PM

    I normally don’t talk much about my testing of new distro but this time, i was totally disapointed… from such a big name…

    @Muhammad: I’m not endorsed by any distro. I like switching/testing them. But i must admit that latest Linux Mint 7 offers the best desktop experience/completeness for home usage. Before Ubuntu, RedHat was my biggest choice for desktop (even if i was using “clean” Slackware).

  9. FreedomOfChoice
    10 June 2009 at 11:05 PM

    I was compelled to leave a comment after reading the review. I installed from the x86_64 Gnome LiveCD on my Dell Latitude E6400. I have to say this has been one of the least painless installations to date. Everything worked out-of-box except for the fingerprint reader but this was no surprise as the module is Broadcom USH. Wireless, BT, Intel graphics(compiz desktop effects), Dell’s Hotkeys(screen brightness, volume controls, etc. all worked. Even the usually touchy Power management (Suspend, hibernate) worked by default!. Jaunty 9.04 couldn’t get this to work without some tinkering. Minor bugs do exist but none affecting system stability. I have been running it for the past 24 hours. May not be an exhaustive stress test but so far I’m impressed!

    Summary: Leonidas may not be problem free but it is definitely not a lemon. Please give it a shot.

  10. Tistje
    10 June 2009 at 11:11 PM

    Looks like I’m lucky.
    I loaded the (gnome) live iso on a usb stick with unetbootin yesterday and booted my eeepc 701 (with 2gb memory) with it.

    I worked with the livecd all evening. It was fast to boot and firefox 3.5b4 worked faster and froze less than the 3.0 version on ubuntu.
    Adding a repository () and installing software (comix and unrar) worked flawless for me, even if I was running from a live-image.

    I really liked the speed and responsiveness of it all.

  11. tkjacobsen
    11 June 2009 at 12:18 AM

    @ Gecko, @ Muhammad Fahd Waseem:
    I’m with nedux here, the kde version shouldn’t ship all the gnome apps, if you want those, use the gnome version. It’s much easier to install oo.o, gimp, firefox with yum for those that want to do that, but it’s pain to remove all the gnome dependencies if it’s the other way around. Also why do you need oo.o and gimp on a live cd? It’s just a preview of the software, and not a substitution of a fully working environment.

  12. MintyFresh
    11 June 2009 at 1:58 AM

    Fedora 11 is absolutely FLAWLESS. Zero Crashes, Zero Problems since Rawhide was uploaded. THE Best Linux system every created .. till Fedora 12.

  13. timdor
    11 June 2009 at 4:49 AM

    Haven’t tried KDE version of Fedora 11, but was able to successfully install the gnome version. I ran the beta version on my Aspire One for several weeks and had no problems. Decided to do fresh install with the final release and this time use LVM to extend my home partition onto the SD card in the left slot. The installer repeatedly crashed until I finally decided to just set up LVM for my home partition then extend it to the SD after installation. I was not able to completely set up LVM using the GUI, because it only gave me the options of ext2 and ext3. I have had good luck with ext4 on my netbook and am not about to give it up. I had to go to the terminal to get everything set up using ext4. Then I had to edit fstab in order to mount my home partition.

    Obviously, this would completely discourage anybody who is new to Linux. In Fedora’s defence, I can’t imagine anybody unfamiliar with Linux attempting to use LVM. The installer for the beta worked flawlessly on my machine when I did not attempt to use LVM. On the other hand, the Logical Volume Management utility in the GUI is practically useless, and setting up LVM across multiple physical volumes during installation is impossible. Clearly, Fedora needs to work on its implementation of LVM.

    Other than the mess with LVM, I have been extremely happy with Fedora on my Aspire One. The hardware works flawlessly, except for the wireless LED. Over the last 5 months I have installed Fedora 10, Mandriva 2009.1, Ubuntu Netbook Remix 9.04, Crunchbang 8.10, Arch, and finally Fedora 11. Fedora 11 so far works best. Of course, YMMV.

  14. steve walton
    11 June 2009 at 5:31 AM

    I tried it in virtualbox and decided to try the ‘encrypt partitions’ option. The result was a crashed installer.
    Mint7 worked as expected but i’m not that happy about the inclusion of moonlight although its easy to remove.

  15. sman
    11 June 2009 at 7:50 AM

    @steve walton:

    Fedora no is the problem, the problem is virtualbug, ehmm, I say virtualbox…, Fedora is the most stable bleed edge OS, not is *buntus …, but not is perfect, what is perfect? Win – Mac?…, one certain thing I know is what Fedora is the distro with more faster updates …

  16. Lego
    11 June 2009 at 11:03 AM

    Why on earth would anyone write a *negative* review whining about not finding thier favorite Gnome apps on a purely KDE distro? When was the last time you heard of a Gnome distro slammed for not including Dia, Amarok, k3b, and Kaffeine on the LiveCD? Simply silly. If you want Gnome, RUN Gnome. If not, simply yum it. It’s not like it’s beyond a command away…

  17. KenP
    11 June 2009 at 11:28 AM

    I am running Fedora 11 with KDE4. Extremely fast, especially when compared to earlier iterations that I tried. So, I installed this one on my hard-disk.

    Yum has improved a lot as has overall KDE4 integration into Fedora. Earlier, KDE seemed like an unwanted guest 🙂

    I like Plymouth and X starting on vt1 too. Avoids flicker.

  18. Jaroslav Šmíd
    11 June 2009 at 12:47 PM

    Check this “image review” of Fedora 11. It’s on czech linux server, but there is english text in images:

    http://www.abclinuxu.cz/blog/jarda_bloguje/2009/6/fedora-11-reloaded

    Comments are welcomed.

  19. 11 June 2009 at 12:50 PM

    @ Lego: Please read my read my justifications before you start calling my review a ‘whining’. What separates the average distro from the best is this very fact: when did openSUSE ever ship without a smattering of the best overall apps regardless of flavour, though KDE 4 is generally its preferred desktop? Oh, and I’d willingly yum them, but then, my package manager does not work either! Now where do I yum them from?

  20. anonymous
    11 June 2009 at 1:20 PM

    I am tired of crappy reviews reflecting 5 to 10 min involvement in testing for the purposes of the review. All this, for just being the first one posting the review on the new distro! Thanks a lot for all the damage your crappy review creates, yes you’re the first one with a review, congratulations!!!!
    Well-done and written reviews are becoming a rare comodity these days,especially the ones after somebody uses an OS everyday for a long period of time, let’s say 3 months, 6 months whatever. Those reviews should give a rating and should be valued by critically-thinking users.
    I am not a fedora advocate, for comments on the distro I ll point you to my review after 3 months of everyday use.

  21. 11 June 2009 at 2:42 PM

    @ anonymous: For one, it is a lot more than 5-10 minutes worth of testing, it is days and weeks. Yes, I have been testing the Fedora pre-release versions too, and one can generally tell the direction the distro takes.
    Let us assume I tested the distro for 1 hour. Even so, that is enough to tell me if there are any show stopper bugs and problems: as were present in my Fedora experience. If my package manager refuses to work, and the system does not shut down cleanly, what good is it for me to waste 3 months?
    Pray look at some of my more positive reviews: you’ll find they are not very fresh off the release. Reason? They worked.

  22. anonymous
    11 June 2009 at 4:36 PM

    If you ve spent an hour max testing pre-releases the same way you did this crap, I am sorry to say that is a waste of time for you and for us as well. So, let’s assume you’ve spend an hour playing around, and you come across a showstopper. Most probably somebody more respectful has solved it already, so for 90% of the cases the solution is 10 mins away, provided that somebody has the exprertise to google and a little bit of patience to read a couple of posts. Is it a showstopper for instance if the X doesn’t work and instead you spend 10 more mins, making the time from 1 hour to 1 hour and 10? You would probably say “this is crap, give it 0 out of 10”. And then somebody else who would invest 10 mins he may enjoy a perfect distro and you would stay stuck with the Novel-MS alliance. What’s wrong if the default scheme is not pleasing? CHANGE it to your liking, big fcking deal!! However, for you to defend such a superficial approach is something that I can not accept as a by-heart linux user. It’s really amusing that you have the nerve to try to justify the usefullness of your idiotic review by justifying the other 1-hour superficial reviews… It does make a lot of sense….

  23. 11 June 2009 at 4:52 PM

    @ anonymous: This is all a little revved up. I carefully look through all my conclusions. Any solutions that can be found, are found. As for the rest, I file bug reports, and wait for the next release. Meanwhile, I go back to the last distro I was using, which is currently Ubuntu 9.04 or openSUSE 11.1. Rest assured that I test my Linuxes as thoroughly as I can within a reasonable laxity. And note that my reviews are titled ‘Desktop Emphasis’: If an average user sees these bugs, there are few chances of them sticking to the distro.

    I get the feeling that a lot of your furious response is directed at my love of openSUSE. In that case, please visit boycottnovell.com instead of this blog 🙂

  24. ViperV
    11 June 2009 at 5:04 PM

    This is funny:

    “KDE4 is a lot more usable than GNOME, and the looks don’t hurt either.”

    KDE is great… for people who like to constantly play with their desktop instead of actually using it. Then again, I believe the ultimate user interface is the shell.

  25. anonymous
    11 June 2009 at 5:50 PM

    Honestly, I don’t give a dime if you use suse, ubuntu LFS openbsd or even windows. In fact I would have had more respect if you used windows and this was your attempt at Linux. At least, that would indicate what a linux newbie would face.
    Neither am I furious about you or your distro of choice. It’s your freedom, it’s your intelligence, it’s your correctness, it’s your image, credibility, knowledge and seriousness you portray to the many readers, it’s your motivation to do what you want to do and how you want to mislead the readers through distrowatch.
    My point?
    I repeat it: Good reviews are a rare comodity these days.
    A few hours after every major distro release we are flooded with crappy 1 hour reviews, so that their authors get read first, (which may translate with more hits, more popularity, better ads etc); the bottom line is that this is the implicit motivation. And definitely, you’re in no position to give a verdict and give a rating after an hour of use. We want somebody to use it for 1 month and give us his experience. Do that and then we discuss about the distro. Can you do that? Of course not, you can’t do it because there will be another new release of an XYZ major distro, which you need to download as fast as possible, install it an do again a similar atrocity, to get linked first in distrowatch and increase your hits.

  26. 11 June 2009 at 6:18 PM

    @ anonymous: My dear sir (or madam, I can’t tell if you choose to go anonymous), a review is essentially an opinion. And opinions can be formed in 5 minutes, or 5 years. It took me years to form an opinion about SUSE, and it took me weeks to form an opinion about Fedora (the pre release version). The release did nothing to appease me. As is, my review was practically written in my end.

    Hopefully, that’s the end of the story. Ratings, hits, ads, etc have nothing to do with it. I request you to read my other posts too: My ads are experimental, I have gained not a cent from my ads – and I do not intend to. Please stop making them a basis for slander.

    Enjoy!

  27. 11 June 2009 at 6:33 PM

    @ ViperV: While I tend to agree that the ultimate user interface is indeed the shell, KDE4 is otherwise, IMO, the best Linux desktop. This, of course, is purely a matter of preference. I prefer full menus and options, and I find the over simplicity of GNOME rather crippling, sometimes.

  28. Henri Witsenhuysen
    11 June 2009 at 8:55 PM

    Along with FreedomOf Choice I installed Fedora 11 from the x86_64 Gnome Beta LiveCD on my Dell Latitude D830.
    I must say this has been one of the least painless installations. Everything worked out-of-box. Wireless, BT, Intel graphics(compiz desktop effects), Dell’s Hot keys(screen brightness, volume controls, etc. all worked. Even the Power management system (Suspend, hibernate) worked. Minor bugs do exist but none affecting system stability.
    I have been running this downloaded version from the day it came out. Updated the packages when they were available.
    As read elsewhere in the comments I do not use LVM either not because it is said to be difficult but simply not necessary.
    Software? There is enough on the network – you only need to look.
    Productively I have been fairly happy with this version and the way it is updated.

  29. APB
    11 June 2009 at 9:24 PM

    I have been using Linux since the early Mandrake days. I have used a LOT of distros.
    Have just installed f11 KDE – it looks promising.

    After manually adjusting my partitions to include a /boot, I used the LiveCD and installed f11 to ext4.
    The install was painless & fast.

    I am only @ first boot after install but thought I had to comment because after recently becoming a little jaded with Linux (not that I would return to MS), I am getting a nice warm feeling again 🙂
    I have always preferred KDE but the looks were letting it down a bit. I tried the earlier KDE4 versions with various distros but reverted back to KDE3. And, I always thought for KDE to go for Mandriva, SuSE etc, and for Gnome to use fedora (or possibly Ubuntu).
    But…….It seems I am looking good for fedora/KDE4 🙂 Nice and does not seem at all sluggish.

    I know it is early days, but I have not had any issues at all – screen res (1680×1050) is good (as usual with fedora) and package manager looks better and works no prob and is fast. So, I, at least, can confirm that not everyone should expect to find a broken package manager in f11 as reported by the original reviewer.

    The only thorn so far, is that the liveCD & the ext4 – /boot situation complicates matters somewhat.

    Anyway, I’m off to play:)

    BTW Muhammad, I do have to side with ‘anonymous’ regarding reviews. I accept that if you have not had a good experience, then you may not want to ‘waste. any more time with a distro/version.
    Problem is, a negative experience such as yours this early will discourage some from bothering as it sounds that f11 is fundamentally screwed – which is totally the opposite experience for me and my hardware.

    My spec:
    AMD64x2 4800
    Gigabyte GA-M56S-S3 motherboard
    4gig Geil RAM
    ATI 1650 pro

    Thanks.

  30. appp
    11 June 2009 at 11:27 PM

    If you expect gimp, openoffice, mplayer, and firefox on 700Mb Live CD, YOU MUST BE CRAZY!!! This shows the lack of even basic understanding about the subject that you write about.
    If you cannot use yum, keep your opinions to yourself.

  31. 11 June 2009 at 11:45 PM

    @ appp: Does Ubuntu not offer the very same on its LiveCD?

  32. Viktor
    12 June 2009 at 12:41 AM

    I am a Ubuntu user but I decided to give F11 a try on my Acer Aspire 5610.

    Anaconda installer is second to none in term of speed. The issue about EXT4 is not important to me as I still use stable and well tested EXT3 for my Ubuntu 9.04. It is very nice that Anaconda gives option to encrypt the system for which a pass phrase is required during initial boot up. That worked fine.

    The booting of F11 was as fast as promised by the developer. The multimedia codec issue was resolved after adding the RPM fusion and Livna repository and the package kit took care of the rest during playback of any multimedia file. I also installed Autoten which took care of all multimedia issue including Flash came across

    Even though , there were not many applications by default , they could be installed by YUM. Pulse audio worked fine without any need for extra work out. All my hardware were detected including my Intel Graphics and Broadcom wireless.

    It is a highly stable and powerful distro . Any one who used Linux at least a year or so can use it . I tag this F11 as a powerful and user frienndly multi purpose distro . Good work , developers !

  33. 12 June 2009 at 1:20 AM

    @ Viktor and APB: Glad to know it worked for you! Honestly speaking, I feel that your method of disagreeing with my review is far superior to some of the… well.. less civil comments up there 😉

  34. nothing
    12 June 2009 at 1:23 AM

    i have used f11 for some time now gnome and it does not work for me at least . nothing seems to work i did try to get everything working and i seem to get most of it working but there was still had some probs so i had to go back to good old debian. and one more thing i hate that this anonymous guy is giving the review a hard time.the fact is this is his review he did not have a good time with it he just talks about that in his review.IT IS HIS REVIEW that the most important thing you can not agree with him thats fine but i don’t think u can call the man dumb.

  35. Viktor
    12 June 2009 at 2:40 AM

    First of all , Fedora is not recommended for the new Linux users unless they have determination to learn new process. There has been a total transformation of Fedora since F10/Cambridge which made it a very stable distro for all purpose use defying all myths that it is too bleeding edge . F11 is no exception on that regard.
    However , the problem many user are now facing with F11 is probably related to KDE4 rather than the distro itself. People should give the Gnome version a try which is the traditional platform of Fedora. I can bet that F11-Gnome will not disappoint you .
    I know that it is a KDE review page but I found F11 Gnome to be on par with Ubuntu 9.04 without any productivity loss.

    In conclusion, I would not use KDE4 on any distro . KDE4 itself is in fact a beta project to me regardless how many digits they put after it and what people may call it. KDE4 is still simply too unstable and it has variable performance.

  36. appp
    12 June 2009 at 4:37 AM

    Ok, for what it’s worth I checked what’s on Kubuntu Live CD

    http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/releases/kubuntu/jaunty/kubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.manifest

    openoffice.org is there, alright
    gimp, firefox, and mplayer are NOT on it.

    Care to withdraw or amend you blatant opinion piece?

  37. fred
    12 June 2009 at 6:44 AM

    ViperV
    “KDE is great… for people who like to constantly play with their desktop instead of actually using it. Then again, I believe the ultimate user interface is the shell.”

    Yes, if you are an administrator

  38. Tom
    12 June 2009 at 10:41 AM

    This is the second time I’ve tried Fedora…F10, which didn’t go too well, and now F11. Unfortunately after installing F11 my computer started to overheat and started on fire.

  39. 12 June 2009 at 12:44 PM

    @ appp: Please peruse:

    http://en.opensuse.org/Package_List/11.1/KDE4-LiveCD-i686
    http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/ubuntu-releases/9.04/ubuntu-9.04-desktop-i386.manifest

    SUSE’s KDE4 LiveCD contains Firefox and OpenOffice.org, as well as the venerable Kaffeine. Ubuntu’s LiveCD contains OpenOffice.org, GIMP, Firefox and Totem.

    Please try to read the other side of the story before calling a review blatant. Even the presence of some of those softwares would have alleviated a lot of my concerns.

  40. Antonio machado
    12 June 2009 at 2:25 PM

    I am using fedora 11 x86_64 gnome right now and and it works!The only problem i got was on first try the installer didn’t let me use ext3 partitions for root!So if you you want to install use a gparted live cd or partition magic ,to make the partitions first!Best way is to make a first /boot partition with 200 MB with ext2 or ext3 filesystem ,then for root and home use etx4 only!You are advised!Install grub on that partition not on MBR!Then add RPM Fusion free and non-free repositories in order to get nvidia, unrar ,etc,etc!Just google it…

  41. appp
    12 June 2009 at 10:51 PM

    Dude!

    *K*ubuntu (not Ubuntu) is the counterpart of Fedora *KDE* Live CD that you are write about.

    Why do you keep trying to manipulate facts? Good thing is that you now learn about proper research before writing.

  42. Hoffa
    13 June 2009 at 12:01 AM

    Fedora 11 is working flawlessly on my Dell laptop. I like the plymouth boot, and it is FAST. PackageKit works as advertised. Yum-presto is a great idea. As far as codecs, I think it’s laughable that people don’t want to take one minute to enable RpmFusion, but they’ll take two to complain about it. Someone mentioned that the reviewer’s problem may be mostly due to the KDE version of Fedora being lame; they’re probably right. I’ve tried a handful of distros’ Gnome and KDE versions, and KDE was always buggier and slower. Plus, the apps that you like so much (OpenOffice, Firefox, etc.) all look like shit in KDE. Plus you have an ugly walnut in the top right corner that won’t leave, and a menu that’s like a giant application, and a bunch of floating plastic things everywhere. And you have to click Apply every time you want to make a change–that’s dumb; it reminds me of Windows style. Whoops, I’m turning this into a Gnome vs. KDE thing…Honestly though, if you prefer a spartan Gnome environment, then Fedora 11 ROCKS. It is fast, and stable, with sane, efficient, non-plastic defaults and the latest software. I don’t want to knock the review too much (does anybody really read these posts anyway?), but I just hate for people to link here from Distrowatch wondering if Fedora 11 is any good, and being turned off. Believe me, I’ve used a lot of distros, and Fedora 11 is a great release.

  43. 13 June 2009 at 12:01 AM

    @ appp: And SUSE? You cannot blame a person for not researching if you keep skimming over the relevant data and picking only the grits yourself…

  44. 13 June 2009 at 5:08 PM

    You folks are lucky; you managed to install Fedora 11. I wanted to install it to my netbook hard drive but could not because of a bug in the Fedora installer. This is bad. And to think that the release of Fedora 11 was postponed more than once to allow the developers to address all bugs. Do better next time, Fedora.

  45. 13 June 2009 at 8:21 PM

    I find it interesting that you seem to require so many GTK+ applications but favor KDE as your desktop. I can understand why you might need Open-Office and Firefox, but what could you possibly need with Totem when there are so many other competent players out there that use a QT gui, like VLC. Nothing against KDE, I used to use it exclusively years ago, but I think the reason that I don’t is because there aren’t any reasonable equivalents to something like Firefox and no good recent conduits to sync my mobile devices with… KDE is at a crossroads.

  46. yehdev_cc
    13 June 2009 at 10:58 PM

    Besides, firefox and openoffice ARE NOT gnome apps and they aren’t of the gnome project .. gnome project has its own browser and office suite .. being using GTK doesn’t make it a ‘gnome’ application ..the same way ‘scribus’ is not a KDE application because it uses Qt ..
    My OWN overall experience with fedora releases isn’t good as well ..
    the only fedora I liked was F10, or to be accurate, was able to use .. and this probably due to my hardware upgrade .. 😦
    I’m trying Fedora Electronics Lab 11 spin now … and will see ..

  47. Eugene Brazwick
    13 June 2009 at 11:26 PM

    But it does not install…

    I attempted to install it over an Ubuntu Studio with LVM, but when I press the LVM button in the partioner it says I must create a Volume Group first, but it obviously already exists. Second attempt to install a Fedora, and both failed miserably.

  48. Viktor
    14 June 2009 at 4:32 AM

    Come on guys ! It is not a rocket science to successfully install Fedora 11 on your PC/laptop. I have done it on three different occasions without ever using the shell. If you failed to install this very simple distro , you must have been doing something fundamentally wrong which is not the fault of Fedora. I doubt that you ever tried to install Fedora under general circumstances. Things like overheating ( as mentioned by Tom) I have have never come across even in M$ WIndow$ in the last 20 years. Are you serious ?

    Please admit that you are newbie in Linux while you are discouraging other new people who like to try Linux. Please say it the beginning that you are a Linux newbie in order to avoid confusion among the people .
    And Eugene , you did not mention how it failed when you failed to Install it on top of your Ubuntu Studio . What was the error ? It is known fact that Fedora uses LVM by default unless you specify the partitions. Anaconda is the simplest Linux installer that exists in the present time.

    Networking played at the heart of *nix system from the day one. You can install Open office and most common applications in a matter of clicks in Feodra 11 if you are connected to the net. It does not require you to compile the binaries yourself. It is expected that you are connected to the net in these time unless you live in a primitive world of your own.

  49. 15 June 2009 at 1:07 AM

    Honestly what do you expect from Linux? It doesn’t work, it never did and it never will. Linux is so inferior it’s a shame people still don’t get it. Linux isn’t even an operating system, it’s some kind of religion with all its side effects like aberration, mental incapacity, disorder and so on.

    If you prefer stability, security and superiority then Microsoft Windows is your choice!

    Linux is a crock of shit. 😦

  50. 15 June 2009 at 6:43 PM

    @ Windows forever: I’ll forgive you for this, because apparently, you’ve never used a good Linux distro.

  51. Stew
    16 June 2009 at 6:45 AM

    Fedora is not a single package. Like any distribution, it is made up of many parts put together. Some parts are very stable and tested such as apache, and some are new such as beta version of firefox.

    All software projects (or additional new features to projects) start as new, unstable and buggy, and over time become older, stable and more bug-free. It is impossible to have new and bug-free. In addition, linux distributions have various goals, such as be a good desktop, or be a good server, or be stable, or be extra user friendly, or be extra flexible.

    The general trend, aim, goal and purpose of Fedora is to put together (or develop itself) the newer, more unstable, buggy, latest versions of desktop and server software together into a release. This follows Fedora’s belief that putting out to the world the newer more-buggy software (plus stable bits too such as gnome) all on one CD/DVD, is the best way to drive forward the development of that newer software so real-world testing occurs and so bugs are reported and bugs are fixed. During the lifetime of a Fedora release such as 11, many updates and new versions of software packages will be pushed out as updates to Fedora, even big jumps such as new versions of the kernel, or Gimp 2.4 to Gimp 2.6 (Fedora won’t update Gnome as that would be too much of a jump). This gets rapid release of new software out to the world (but might temporaily break things until a new update comes out a few days later). Please note that Fedora’s policy is to push all development, bug reports and fixes upstream to original software projects. This means that all other linux distro’s directly benefit from the development, extra testing and bug-fixing that Fedora drives.

    If you want a nice, stable distro, please download and use the stable version of Debian (this is the goal of Debian stable, older software with less features but much more stable and less bugs). For extra new-user-friendliness, use Ubuntu. Ubuntu’s goal is different to Fedora and Debian. Ubuntu wants to make a distro that is great for new linux users, so wants slightly older software so the worst bugs have already been fixed. Ubuntu positions itself between Fedora and Debian stable on the general software stability curve. For instance, latest Ubuntu included Firefox 3.0 and OpenOffice 3.0 and Fedora 11 includes Firefox 3.5 beta and OpenOffice 3.1. Some of that is due to the timing of the distro release, but you get the general idea. Ubuntu also focuses on lots of new-user help and easy graphical features. Fedora does not compete with Ubuntu or other disto’s as the goals/aims of each are different.

    Fedora will continue to ride at the forefront of all new open-source software. Please note that Fedora does not include closed-source software (Fedora can’t fix bugs), or patented software (that leads into long-term traps and problems).

    So if you use Ubuntu or many other distributions, say thank-you to Fedora for many new and debugged features that Fedora/Red Hat has developed with some pain (parts or all of NetworkManager, kernel, xorg, dbus, DeviceKit, hal, PulseAudio, evince, AIGLX, KVM, SElinux, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions for a bigger list). Many of these new features later end up in other distro’s. Fedora will accept your thanks graciously, will hope that you enjoy the features, and also hope that your distro will also put bug fixes and features upstream so that all Linux distro’s will benefit.

    If you are new to Linux or want stable (but older and less featured) software, please use or recommend Ubuntu, Debian or other distro’s that concentrate on more stability. Fedora’s more newer, unstable software focus is more suited to people that can do a bit of trouble-shooting when occasional problems arise (such as these problems you face – go read comments in Fedoraforum.org for solutions). Fedora is great for developers, experimentalists, and the more Linux experienced that want to see the latest features.

    It would be helpful to explain these points if you are reviewing Fedora, so that general readers understand more about the Linux world, and to give the impression that you are a knowledgeable reviewer. Regressions do occur and are a part of the real world in spite of best intentions. They will be noted and fixed. A bug-report is much more useful than flame. General audiences are obviously the biggest, but knowledge, education and solutions work better to these people. Reviewer reputation is decreased if explanations, education, knowledge and solutions are not provided. Part of a good review would be to suggest that Fedora is not the best (saying exactly why) for most in a general audience (suggest Ubuntu instead), and try Fedora in the future when Linux experience is gained.

  52. quick
    16 June 2009 at 2:16 PM

    I have always used RedHats and Fedora , Well Fedora makes a good job of screwing up things which otherwise works perfectly, Assuming that RedHat wanted to test things on users without dirtying their enterprise Linux this is no surprise, Well Pulse S*** Audio and Network Sc***up manager etc are all examples of that, Add to that the new KDE4.0 which always remember me the Vista and theme colours like a Hearse , Well they don’t care since the purpose of the project is to test LOL, Why waste ur time reviewing testing software

  53. 16 June 2009 at 2:44 PM

    @ Stew: Thank you for such a well written, detailed comment. While I do not disagree with any of your facts, there are a few points I would like to clarify.

    * My review is entitled Desktop Emphasis. I take major distros and sometime less known ones, and rip them apart (unforgivingly) about their readiness for desktop usage. It is not about a distro being good for new users, it is about being good for the desktop. Many times, I have found supposedly less user friendly distros excellent for the desktop – Vector Linux being one case in point (yes, I reviewed that too).

    * There is no doubt that Fedora is the cutting edge distro that brings the latest tech into the mainstream. That also bring inherent stability. For the desktop though, that is not good. The newbie will stay clear of it, if they listen to my review (which they should) and the more experienced users will know what I am talking about (which they should).

    * I generally recommend Ubuntu and SUSE for mainstream desktop use. As I did here.

    * The content on my blog, generally, is not for ‘general readers’. Most of the content on my blog is technical material or highly targeted at those people who have experience with the computer world. Most of my page hits are recurring hits, implying that the people who read my content the ones who generally read this kind of material. I do believe they should be able to make up their own minds after reading it.

    * It is rare that I find a distro so poor – generally, I tend to walk a more balanced line. Please read some of my other reviews.

    * Normally, I post solutions to problems along with the problem – if I find one. Otherwise, I post a bug – if one does not already exist. In my case, most of the bugs already exist in the bug-trackers – which made me even more temperamental because they could, and should, have been fixed. Particularly given that some of the bugs are remnants of F10. Note: I hate flame as much as you do.

  54. 17 June 2009 at 1:41 AM

    I just gave Fedora 11 a spin in my virtualbox and liked it a lot!
    So I decided to remove Ubuntu for my trippelboot lap (Vist/Win7/Fedora(Ubuntu.

    I burned the DVD and just wanted to test the hardware before installing it and discovered that my wirelless Atheros was not discovered.
    Also I use an external monitor since I have broken the screen on the laptop. The detection and resolution was not correct but fixable.

    So the review seems to be right about this (I installed Gnome).

    Even so I think the review is a bit harsh. I’ll stay curious but I will not remove Ubuntu. I am particular about my Internet connetion.

  55. Viktor
    19 June 2009 at 2:50 PM

    The sound arrangements (revolving Pulse Audio )in Fedora 11 appear to be the best among not only in any Linux distro but also Windows/Mac OSX . It does not require any specific configuration at all. The result is very impressive. I am using Amarok 1.4 on Fedora 11 and the sound quality beats any desktop audio application currently available in the market.
    You should give it a try.

  56. Rehan
    26 June 2009 at 8:25 PM

    Reading this review sure made me furious because the author has been slamming my current favourite distro. Im pretty much a linux newb and rarely tinker below the x server gui, and I must say I found Fedora 11 to be the easiest to use currently.

    I’ve used many versions of Ubuntu and found Fedora 11 to be as easy . if not easier, than the *buntu distros.

    Fedora 11 is a blessing for people still stuck with slow connections like mine. Yum-presto works like magic and saves me a lot of time spent on updating softwares.

    To the author, maybe you must try out the Gnome livecd for a better experience. But please dont outright label Fedora as ‘not fit for newb desktop users’ because thats not true at all. Especially with Fedora 11.

    I really hope this review is not linked at Distrowatch or people would actually read it and MIGHT take it as truth. If they didnt try out fedora 11, they’d be missing out something HUGE.

    Personally, Fedora 11 has been the best distro I’ve ever tried, and I use openSUSE at my University, Mandrive at my frends home, and I used to run several Ubuntus on my machines at home.
    And yes, F11 beats them all.

    I think everyone should give it a spin, and Im sure you’d never regret it because F11 simply rocks.

  57. 30 June 2009 at 1:14 PM

    Guys, I know Pulseaudio gives great quality, but problem is it malfunctions on intel HD (on board) sound. Just give me a work around…
    (I can’t even start mplayer, xine and VLC gives pulses of audio)
    I thought this was a common bug and latest pulseaudo will solve it
    How do you force alsa on FC11? (instead of default pulse)

  58. 18 August 2009 at 1:02 AM

    Bravo, Stew.

    As stated, Fedora is GNOME-based. KDE is iffy on any system.

    I have Fedora 11 running on 3 laptops, a dekstop and on 3 virtual systems running on Windows XP/VMWare. All installed with minor problems, mostly with things that I don’t really care about. It is stable, and I never have any problems with it.

    I use Fedora as my development system – use Eclipse for an IDE, but I install from source – on all systems, regardless of Fedora, Unix or Windows. It works best under Fedora 11 Ubuntu.

    For a file server, I prefer console-based FreeBSD Unix. For a desktop operating system, I prefer Fedora. All non-virtual installations have Windows XP running in VirtualBox (hard to use) or custom Citrix (very easy) virtual server.

    Fedora 11 running Windows XP is faster and more responsive than running Windows XP standalone, and far more preferable to running Fedora in virtual on Windows XP.

    As Stew stated above, Fedora is fast-release, has bugs, but bugs are resolved quickly, and is not for newbies.

    KDEx sucks on any platform, much one which does not use it as the default GUI. Try GNOME with Fedora – you will be much happier.

    And when you have a problem, please do a bug report so it can be fixed. Not just complained about. BTW, if your package manager under KDE doesn’t work, or you don’t like bugzilla, try your web browser under any OS to report the bug to one of the Fedora forums.

  59. 18 August 2009 at 12:17 PM

    @ Jay Wheeler: I understand your sentiments. Please read my reply to Stew as well. http://superphysics.awardspace.com/2009/06/10/fedora-11-review-kde-desktop-emphasis/#comment-351

  60. 13 September 2009 at 11:21 PM

    Fedora 11 works just perfect for me, and it has worked out the box immediately; I have played with both Gnome and Kde with no problems at all, I am running the 64bit version and, in spite of what they say, I have had no problems with flash-player, with sound (pulse-audio is a real joy), and even skype 2.1 works(could be better but I think it is a skype problem).

    My machine is heavily configured, and it currently acts as SSH server, sendmail server for 4 domains, vsftpd, named and approx 10 people connecting to their desktop remotely via vncserver.

    On top of it I am also running VMWare server (which does not install directly on Fedora as there is no package but for RHEL, but after replacing the vmmon file it goes fine) with a windoz 2003 server as guest.

    I have always been using CentOS or Debian in the past and since Fedora 7 I have switched to fedora as I as tired of the spartan desktop experience on the two mentioned distros. I must say that Fedora 11 behaves just fine, and I am not missing other distros that are more suited for servers. Obviously if my needs were higher I would probably switch back to CentOS but simply because Fedora is a bit less “economical” in terms of system resources.

    SO my question is: what else must a linux distro do for you guys?
    The world is becoming ubuntu-centric; don’t get me wrong ubuntu is great (or rather Debian is great!) but Fedora is nothing less than ubuntu, without the overly simplified initial look&feel and that constant feeling that your powerful Debian based system has been detuned in the name of ease of use.

    Definitely Fedora 11 works fine and feels much more like a professional distro.

    QatQat

  61. Long time Freebsd User
    12 October 2009 at 10:04 AM

    I think alot of people confuse the issue with these reviews, 1 being if your new to any OS these small issues will piss you off and you will prob drop this distro and move to the next.
    Most people trying out a new OS or Linux Distro look at the reviews for guidance without doubt all OS from M$ to OSX are for lack of a better term still in beta since there consistantly being updated but they work out of the box with less hickups then anything else but in saying this there are tons of people that are still not happy with the few hickups they run into running a mainstream OS, The biggest one i hear about is M$ and Virus, lots of people are looking for a reason to move from M$ and its memory leaking virus infected state that its always in but they dont want to place them self in a unstable cant get my job done state either.. I have used RedHat since 3.X – Mandrake same time period and SUSE when it was still in German back in its 6.x days – Currently Using FreeBSD for most things and Mac OSX for everything else..

    For the Bone head that says you can find any problem after installation in 10 minutes just google it , well not everyone in the real working world has time to spend 10 minutes solving a issue that shouldnt be there in the first place.. Computers are supposed to be FUN and to get work DONE not to be fucked with for hours and hours so you can make your 15 y/o self feel like a real hacker.. the rest of use want production and to make money as fast as possible with as little work..

    /End Rant

  62. Long time Freebsd User
    12 October 2009 at 10:23 AM

    Ohh and the Boycottnovell statement is a little out there considering, RedHat ( Fedora core) just jumped in to bed with M$ also.. Once its implemented in to the mainstream RedHat it wont take long before it falls down the ladder(fedora) even if its just simple to put better network communications. How much is just enough when your a real sellout , kinda like a hooker that only charges half price.your still going to endup with something you dont want.. Linux has to many hands in there cookie jars and to many types of cookies with not enough Jars. if it takes M$ to consolidate a couple branches but turns out to create a New stable usable why not jump onto the Sac with them.
    Cleaner usable Code is what we all need not more useless Distros.

  63. pjaxon
    21 November 2009 at 6:35 AM

    Funny comments. I’m amazed @Windows Forever’s comment saying that linux is a joke. Wow… how ignorant can someone be?

    Just installed Fedora 11 … looks like 95% perfect… just adding a wireless driver and so far that looks like the only thing that didn’t work out of the box. I’ve been using Fedora since 7… and am a big fan.

    My latest config has a 128Gb SSD, 4Gb RAM, Core 2 Duo 2.5 Ghz… pretty quick machine. OS boots up in 19.4 seconds… restarts in 30.9 seconds… it’s wicked fast. This isn’t a bare-bones install either… running apache, mysql and other webdev servers. It’s too bad that some people have bad installs. I strongly discourage using the ‘live CD’… try the full DVD ISO instead.

  64. pjaxon
    22 November 2009 at 10:24 AM

    (quick follow-up from last-night’s install)

    … am liking Fedora 11 even more today. After tweaking the system with tips from around the net (http://www.fedoraguide.info/index.php?title=Talk:Fedora11, and others)… now the system is even faster. Wireless driver is fine now and the above link even tweaks bandwidth. Hard drive is reading at 175MB/sec… and I’ve never had Apache, MySQL, phpMyAdmin and self-hosted test environment run any faster.

    One issue was installing VMWare server 2.x … but I realized that wasn’t needed anyway and I just ‘wined’ my Dreamweaver, Flash and Fireworks… all three running fast as $#!t and so far seemlessly. Added a lot to the machine and hardly slowed down boot time. Fedora continues to impress…

  1. No trackbacks yet.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: